Interview: Gary McCarthy

Gary McCarthy is a name well known to western fans, as well as writing many books under his own name Gary has written under a variety of pseudonyms too. So first I must offer my thanks to Gary for agreeing to talk to Western Fiction Review and then hope everyone finds his comments as interesting as I did.

The first question I asked was what made Gary decide to become a writer?

In 1973, I was working as an Economist for the State of Nevada in Carson City and bored out of my mind. I had written three westerns and hadn't been able to sell them. One snowy night I went and saw HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER, hated it and decided that I had nothing to lose by writing a western whose main character was the anthesis of that anti-hero played by Clint Eastwood. So I created a character that was short, heavyset, couldn't shoot or ride a horse and wore a derby hat., but he was an ex-circus strongman and champion bare knuckles fighter. His name was Darby Buckingham and he was the leading dime novelist of his day...but he'd never been to the West. In THE DERBY MAN, my first of many Derby Man novels, Darby Buckingham goes west to see and find the real stories...and so I had a unique character in looks and manner and he became instantly popular. I very much likened him to William Conrad who played in the then popularTV series "Cannon" and he was unique and many dimensional! In the next book, I gave him the lovely, buxom and brainless Dolly Beavers and so they began their adventures throughout the West. I used a lot of humor in that series and it kept me laughing and writing.

Are there any particular authors that influenced him or he recommends?

I have been a member of Western Writers of America for many years and so have had a lot of fine writer friends. I, of course, love the work of Jeanne Williams, Elmer Kelton and Frank Roderus and suppose my favorite author of westerns was Glendon Swarthout whose novel THE SHOOTIST was being filmed when I lived in Carson City and is one of my all time favorite movies. Other western writers high on the list are Alan LeMay and Loren Estleman.

I then asked how Gary plans his books, especially those based around true historical events?

I write fast with intensity doing a novel in about two or three months. Some writers I know start with an outline, but I don't. I start with a character or place and go from there. One of the most important things for me is to do historical research on the area where my novel takes unfolds. I think my best historical novels are YOSEMITE, GRAND CANYON, MESA VERDE and the novels that I wrote for the RIVERS WEST SERIES, especially THE COLORADO and THE RUSSIAN RIVER.

Which of his books would he recommend to someone who hasn’t read any of his work yet?

The two westerns that I am most pleased with are SODBUSTER and RESTITUTION, although the dearest to my heart remain the DERBY MAN series which I always thought would make a fine TV series. The last of that series, THE COMSTOCK CAMELS came about from my years of visiting Virginia City, Nevada and watching the crazy Comstock camel races. In this novel, the elegant Darby Buckingham wins a bet and has to settle in receipt of a mangy, spitting camel and so writing that kind of tongue-in-cheek western was a pure hoot.




Having read quite a few of Gary’s books I asked if he had a personal interest in horses as many of his plots revolve around them?

You mention that horses are often prominent in my novels and that's because I am a pretty fair horseman. I was on my college rodeo team and have owned horses most of my life and still do ride the high country of Northern Nevada today. I love and think they are absolutely beautiful creatures. Writing THE HORSEMEN series was especially interesting for me because I took pure blooded horses from the South and sent them into the West.




There have been a number of attempts to publish a series of books based on successful television series such as Alias Smith and Jones, Bonanza, Kung Fu, and Gunsmoke – at least three different series have been tried of the latter. All these series have only last for three to six books, and I wondered if Gary had any insights as to why?

I did write four GUNSMOKE novels, but I didn't enjoy them and they didn't work for me. I think that was partly because I was...well, kind of intimidated by those great TV characters but also that at the time the owners of the series wanted so much money that it wasn't profitable for me to do anymore of them or for Berkley to publish them. Maybe that has changed over time.

Which book did he win a Spur Award for?

I've written in quite a few series, one of the very best being Jory Sherman's RIVERS WEST series where I think I wrote eight, winning a Spur Award for THE GILA RIVER and being a Spur Award Finalist for THE RUSSIAN RIVER. Oddly enough, I think that THE COLORADO was the best one that I wrote in that fine historical series.

Which other series’ has he written for?

I believe that I've had 46 western and historical novels published under my name and I have probably written at least that many under pseudonyms. I'm still writing for the LONGARM SERIES and have also written a few for GUNSMITH and LONE STAR. My good friend and fellow writer, Frank Roderus and I teamed up on a couple of series writing under pseudonyms, most notably, RAILS WEST and MAN OF HONOR. It's fun to write with Frank, we alternate on the books and delight in putting each others characters in terrible, almost impossible fixes.

Quite a few of Gary’s books have appeared on tape or CD, does he think the producers and narrators have done a good job with them?

I've been extremely fortunate to have almost all of my published novels reproduced in audio by Gary Challender's Books-in-Motion and sometimes when I'm on long driving trips, I listen to them and they are excellent. When I first sold a novel to BIM I wanted to record them myself, but Gary Challender sagely suggested that I hear one first by his "professionals" and I quickly decided that I had better stick to the writing part and let his studio readers do their fine work.

What does he read for pleasure?

As for what I most like to read, I again turn back to the writers that I've already mentioned. I also like to read murder mysteries, my favorite authors being Michael Connelly, Greg Iles and extremely talented people who understand that characterization is always more important in writing than plot.

Finally what does Gary think of the western genre today and what does he think the future holds for the western?

I am sad to say that I think that the western is dying just as is my generation and those before that grew up avidly watching and reading westerns. However, I would add that outstanding westerns in print and on the screen will continue to be occasionally popular. I'm genuinely grateful to Robert Duvall, Kevin Kostner, Clint Eastwood, Tom Selleck and a few other fine actors that continue to keep the genre alive on the screen. When a really fine western, like LONESOME DOVE, BROKEN TRAIL, TOMBSTONE OR QUIGGLY DOWN UNDER is produced, it rekindles in the public's eye that the stories set in the early American West are unique, and powerful.

In reality, the West was a tough, gritty place where life wasn't really all that much valued. But even so, it had a majesty, an aura about it that cannot be diminished or forgotten no matter how much time may past. I'm glad that I was able to experience the American West though my writing and I hope that my stories have given readers both insight and enjoyment and that is not a bad legacy for any man's money.

Interview: Jory Sherman

My next interview is with a western author who should not require an introduction to fans of western fiction: Jory Sherman. Thanks for agreeing to be interviewed Jory.

When did you decide you wanted to be a writer?

I always wrote, but never thought of becoming a professional writer until I spent time in the VA hospital at Ft. Miley, San Francisco. I was a manic-depressive, and this was a special ward with intensive therapy. My psychiatrist asked if he could tape our sessions (3 times a week) and I said okay. The staff decided, from the way I described complex feelings and thought processes that I might do better if I skipped OT (Occupational Therapy) and write. So, they gave me an office, typewriter and paper. I started writing, with no purpose, no plan. There was a writer in our small group. He and the staff flipped out over this raw material. The consensus was that I had the makings of a poet. So, after I left the hospital, I made a decision that I would just write and do any kind of work to allow me this freedom. I studied and wrote, and what emerged was poetry. I have never regretted this decision. I was about 22 or 23 at the time I began writing poetry.

What was the first novel you had published and if this wasn’t a western what was your first western?

My first novel was LUST ON CANVAS. It was not a western, but was a story about an artist whose work I had seen in a gallery in San Bernardino (Calif.). It went through several printings and one day I met the artist, who had read the book and liked it. My first western was GUN FOR HIRE published by Major Books. It, too, went through many printings and many cover prices, starting at 50 cents and going to $1.50.

How many books did you write before the first was accepted for publication?

None. The publishers of that first book were friends who started their own publishing company and came to me. These were a writer/editor, an artist and a photographer.

Which writers influence you?

Hard to tell, because I was influenced first by James Joyce whose ULYSSES I read when I was 10 years old and read it over and over until I was 15. In poetry, I was influenced by Federico Garcia Lorca, Dylan Thomas, the Symbolist poets such as Rimbaud and Verlaine. My father’s aunt, Bertha Muzzy, wrote westerns under the name of B.M. Bower, and we all read her books, along with Zane Grey, Owen Wister, and others. A.B. Guthrie was probably a strong influence with THE BIG SKY and certainly Jack London.

How important is historical accuracy in westerns?

Certain aspects of history are important, such as dates, but history itself is not always accurate. So, I am not a stickler for retelling the exact stories which historical writers have collected and retold. I do not write history, but use it as a backdrop to my fiction. We will probably never know the truth or accuracy about the O.K. Corral, nor the Kennedy Assassination. That’s just the way things are. History can be very slippery when it comes to either accuracy or details.

Which western writers would you recommend?

I would be a poor source for recommendations of western writers since I am legally blind and must listen to books on audio, most of which are not westerns. But, I do enjoy the work of my friends, Elmer Kelton, Loren D. Estleman, Richard S. Wheeler, Max Evans, Tony Hillerman, Terry C. Johnston, Jack Schaefer, Gordon Shirreffs and Charles Portis. Portis’ TRUE GRIT is the most perfect western I’ve ever read. I like Cormac McCarthy’s writing very much because he has a great ear and a strong sense of the power of the English language.

What percentage of your published work are westerns?

I don’t know. A good chunk, certainly, over the past 20 or 30 years. That’s probably because, for several years, westerns were in demand, and I still love to write them. But, my interests are wide-ranging. I am taken more seriously as a western writer because there have been a lot of western books in my recent past.

I’ve recently seen the news that your Savage series is to be continued, is this likely to happen with The Vigilante series too?

SAVAGE GUN was supposed to be only 3 books, which have all been published. Recently, Berkley bought 2 more and I’m writing #4 at present. I haven’t heard of any interest in continuing THE VIGILANTE books, which wound up as a trilogy, not a series. To me, a series is at least 8 books, and that is becoming a rarity in my case.

Using your Shadow Rider series as an example, with eight months between each book being published, do you think readers may have forgotten about the series and moved on to something else in this time, thus effecting sales of your books? I know I find it frustrating having to wait so long to find out what happens next.

I long ago gave up trying to figure out what readers want or don’t want. A good title and a good cover illustration probably help to sell books, rather than the frequency of publishing. Yes, some readers keep track and get frustrated when too much time passes between books, and yes, they will move on to other titles. My main concern is when a trilogy or a series is cut off before it has a chance to catch on. I still get a lot of mail about my trilogy, THE BUCKSKINNERS, but Tor/Forge wanted me to work on THE BARON saga, so dropped the third book. Incidentally, Forge (Tom Doherty & Associates) has had THE BARON HONOR for over 2 years and has not yet published it. I still have one more to write in that series, the BARON LEGACY, which I’ve started, but set aside until I get further word on the fate of that series.

You came up with the idea for the Rivers West series, how did you decide which authors to ask to write for the series?

I didn’t create the RIVERS WEST series for myself, but for the best writers in Western Writers of America. My first calls were to Louis L’Amour, Elmer Kelton and Will Henry. Elmer was too busy, Will was almost totally blind and had all but given up on writing, and Stuart Applebaum would not allow Louis to write for me. Since I envisioned the series to go on for years, if not centuries, I was lucky to get such fine writers as Win Blevins, Richard S. Wheeler, Gary McCarthy, Frank Roderus and Don Coldsmith. Again, Bantam would not let Don write for me after that one book. The series took off right out of the box and my editor, Greg Tobin, asked me to step in and write some of them. I sold the series with a single page overview that I took to New York. It was a very successful series as long as it lasted. There are still over 2000 rivers west of the Mississippi (and we never did get to that river, even), and I was sorry to see the series die.

When Pocket Star stopped publishing westerns with only the first of your Owlhoot Trail series being published I was wondering what became of the announced second book Journey of Death, did you rewrite it and get it published elsewhere?

Pocket paid me the advance for the 2nd and 3rd books in THE OWLHOOT TRAIL. I had delivered the 2nd one, which they returned. I did rewrite it, but have not tried to sell it. It’s still on the shelf.

Which of your westerns would you recommend to someone who hasn’t read any of your work yet and why?

I don’t like to recommend any of my books to people I don’t know because my tastes may not be anyone else’s. However, if someone wishing to write westerns asked me which of my books I think might help them, I’d mention SONG OF THE CHEYENNE, first published by Doubleday, in hardcover, and later by Tor, in paperback. This, because the novel is from the Cheyenne point of view and does not use white man’s terms to describe the Cheyenne world. And, perhaps THE MEDICINE HORN, which won the WWA Spur Award for Best Novel, because it represents an entire movement westward at a time when such travel was technically illegal. And, finally, I might recommend GRASS KINGDOM, because it involves three ranching families in the Rio Grande Valley and shows how a large cast of characters affect one another’s lives. That book was the first published in the Baron series, but will wind up being the last, since I went back 100 years to explore the settling of that region of Texas, a harsh, unforgiving environment not particularly suited to raising cattle or any other kind of livestock.

Please tell us a little more about writing The Medicine Horn.

THE MEDICINE HORN, won the Spur in 1995, much to my surprise. I was writing that book when I had triple bypass heart surgery. The anesthetic stayed in my brain for a year, and it was like wading through quicksand. It took me a year to write because there were huge gaps between moments of lucidity.

As you’ve had a couple of books published under the Ralph Compton name I was wondering what’s your opinion on keeping dead authors alive by having someone write new books under their name, like is happening with Ralph Compton and William Johnstone?

I did write 2 books for Ralph Compton’s estate. I liked Ralph very much as a friend and fellow writer and so I took on the assignments. As long as credit is given to the actual writer, I’m comfortable with that. There are no royalties, however, so I declined writing any more such books. When a writer has a winning series, such as the Trail Drive series, it seems a shame to let it die. Bill Johnstone was a friend, but he wrote very few of his books even when he was alive. When he became ill, he didn’t write any of the books that came out under his name. While he has a large following, few people probably realize that he didn’t write most of the books appearing under his name.

Have you written any westerns under a pseudonym and if so can you tell us which?

Yes, I’ve written several westerns under various pseudonyms. At one time I was Zebra’s only western author, so I wrote under the name of Walt Denver. I can’t recall the other pseudonyms. My memory is like a sieve and much of my past has seeped out through the holes.

Is there a western series you’d like to resurrect?

RIVERS WEST, and SHADOW RIDER. The latter was published by Harper Collins and only lasted 3 books. I liked the character, Zak Cody, and thought he should have had a longer life in print.

Which past western would you like to see back in print and why is this?

I’d like to see SONG OF THE CHEYENNE back in print and I’d like to see it marketed to a young adult audience. So far, all of my attempts to do this have failed. For all the others, they’ve had their day and probably do not need nor deserve a second chance.

What do you think of the western genre today and what do you think the future holds for the western?

Since I can no longer read printed books, I don’t know much about the genre of today. I know we have some fine writers out there, Johnny Boggs, Bill Brooks, Jimmy Lee Butts, Pete Brandvold, Mike Blakely, Bill Crider, Cameron Judd, and many others. They are keeping the western alive and infusing new energies into the genre. I’ve seen many genres go through cycles and I believe, since the western is our native literature, that it will live on in some form or other. We’ve seen vestiges of it in such movies as OUTLAND, STAR WARS and others, so my hunch is that somewhere down the road, the genre will not only be refined, but achieve classical status that will rival all other so-called genres.

Finally, what is your favourite western movie and why?

Steve, I would probably say THE WILD BUNCH, since I knew Sam Peckinpaugh and respect his genius. I also saw the complete director’s cut where many good scenes were deleted. A close second would be JEREMIAH JOHNSON, because I hunted with a .50 caliber Hawken, trapped when I was a kid and have spent much time in the wilderness areas of the Rocky Mountains. That’s where my heart is, nearly 200 years too late.

Interview: Frank Roderus

Frank Roderus kindly agreed to be interviewed for WFR. Frank has had around 300 books published, with many more to come, the majority of which are westerns. Some of these books have appeared under his own name with the others being published under a variety of pseudonyms. So for the well-read fan of westerns chances are you’ve probably read some of his work without realising it.

When did you decide you wanted to be a writer?

I can't claim that I ever did 'decide'. It simply...was. My grandmother had been a country school teacher, and she made teaching me a special project starting at age 3. I wrote my first story at age 5. It was a western, typed on my father's portable typewriter. My mother kept it for the remainder of her life, and now my wife has it put away somewhere. I can still recall running in to the kitchen to ask my mother how to spell this word or that.

What was the first novel you had published and if this wasn’t a western what was your first western?

My first book was a young adult titled Duster. It was a western, in fact was voted in second place in that year's Spur Awards. Between that original publication and later reprints it was available in print for roughly 25 years. It never made much money but selling it was one of the biggest thrills of my life.

How many books did you write before the first was accepted for publication?

I believe Duster was my fourth completed manuscript, but I had made countless failed starts before that time.

Which writers influence you?

John Steinbeck, John D. MacDonald, Mackinley Kantor. When I was a boy I learned much from the nameless contract authors who wrote the Red Randall Flying Ace series and of course from the Hardy Boys. Those fellows could keep a story moving.

Do you work on more than one book at a time?

Yes, I do. If I happen to have enough work to justify two at once.

Do you wish you had more say in the covers that appear in your books?

No, not really. I don't know much about the art of attracting a potential buyer's eye; I hope they do.

How important is historical accuracy in westerns?

It can be important in a certain kind of setting, if you are using real battles or real people. And of course your details - guns, tack, available consumables etc - have to be accurate as to the era involved. Otherwise accuracy is much, much less important than the story being told. I've made up entire mountain ranges...and in fact have had readers comment that they remember camping beside a stream I described when in truth it was all imagination created to fit the needs of the story or the whim of the storyteller.

What appeals to you about the western genre?

It was an era of boundless freedom and opportunity. I've loved it all my life.

Which western writers would you recommend?

Elmer Kelton is probably the best among us today. Peter Brandvold. Gary (NOT Cormac, thank you very much) McCarthy. Douglas Hirt.

What’s your opinion on keeping dead authors alive by having someone write new books under their name, like is happening with Ralph Compton and William Johnstone?

I have done a little of that myself. It was a paycheck and I feel no need to apologize. But I think it cheats the reader unless it is made abundantly clear that his old favorite is no more and the real author's name is prominent on the cover.

You’ve written under many pseudonyms for different series, which of these series have you enjoyed writing for the most?

Without question that would be the Longarm series. My pal Custis Long is still fun to write largely because with him we can be playful, and so can he, while still telling a cracking good yarn.

You’ve been writing Longarm books since the early 1980’s, are you still doing so and which of these are your favourites?

The series has added more than 300 titles since I came aboard, as one of four writers, with No. 53. That was a very long time ago, and I am still doing them, still having fun with them. Don't think I could single out any one book as a favorite though.

I noticed your name on the copyright page of the first Man of Honor novel, (as by Gary Franklin) will you be doing anymore of these?

I am the Franklin in that duo; Gary McCarthy is the Gary part of it. We really enjoyed writing Joe Moss and would love to do more, but that would be up to the publisher. At this point I would say the odds of that happening are on the slim side.

You’ve also won a couple of Spur Awards, which books were these for?

I won in 1983 for Leaving Kansas, the first of my Harrison Wilke books and again in 1996 for Potter's Fields which is far and away my favorite of all the books I've written.

I’ve noticed your name on a Black Horse Western from English publisher Hale, is this a recent outlet for your work and are these new stories?

The nice folks at Hale reprinted a number of my titles some years back and now we have reconnected for some more. All my work with them has been reprints of books first published in the U.S.

As BHW are usually shorter than your average paperback western did you have to edit these previously published books to fit the length of story requested by Hale?

I generally write a fairly short book anyway. If anyone edited those for length it was not me.

Which of all your westerns, under your own name or a pseudonym, would you recommend to someone who hasn’t read any of your work yet and why?

That would depend on the age of the reader, I suppose. For a youngster I would suggest either Duster or Journey to Utah. For an adult reader either the aforementioned Potter's Fields or, again, Journey to Utah. And yes, you may safely infer that those have been my favorites.

What do you think of the western genre today and what do you think the future holds for the western?

I still love the west and the western. Every few years, though, someone who claims to be knowledgable about publishing will pronounce the western genre dead. Obviously I am in no position to know, and am certainly prejudiced in favor of the western, but it is my sincere hope that the genre will continue to entertain - and to inform - for generations yet to come.

Finally what do you read for pleasure?

I read a lot of history - early U.S., ancient Greece, Rome and Britain - plus modern crime fiction. What I do NOT, with rare exception, read is westerns. I do not want to read a plot twist in someone else's book and love it but then not be able to steal it. Better that I not read it to begin with so I can duplicate with a clean conscience.